"It is my calling, my destiny. I am the one girl in all the world with the strength (of stomach) and the will (and where there's a will...) to beat Bold and Stupid Men upside the head until either they pass out, or I feel better. Usually both." -- Dianne the Clue Fairy
"What Kiki does not know is that we've secretly replaced her friendly-and-somewhat-sexy next door neighbor who likes Taster's Choice with a very-scary-and-very-very-sexy secret agent type. Let's see if she notices the difference..."
"What Lizbet *doesn't* know is that we've replaced her standard work mail dude with one that bears an incredible resemblance to Peter Wingfield. Let's watch as she picks up the mail, and see if she notices." -- Lizbet and Chris
"Herds? Herds! I beg your pardon. List Mom you may be but no one said anything about cattle driver."
"I think we got the wires crossed with that Iberian cattle herding list somewhere...." -- Deb and Lizbet
"We gave birth to a litter tonight. We need sleep." -- The ListMom
"Are you comparing Herbert to PorCroix? PorCroix (who I might add still sits proudly overlooking my living room) is a stylishly dressed and dignified animal who would have given that pack a run for their money. Never would he have allowed himself to be caged by someone named "Flutie" (It is Flutie, no?) and made to look so ridiculous. Which is not to say that I blame Herbert for his situation. After all, what's a pig on the Hellmouth to do?" -- Deb
"As for Porcroix -- well, PorCroix is not a crossover animal. He is firmly entrenched in FK though he might have found a bosom buddy in Spike (or at least someone with whom he could trade hairdressing tips)"
"Give me time. I crossed over the gold fish." -- Deb and Abby
"Do not get between a Merc GHP and her shellelaigh, for you are a newbie and can be unsubbed!"
"Am I to understand that this group lets you get away with such autocratic
blather? :-) Whatever is the world coming to..."
"Of course we do, silly. It's all part of the entertainment you were promised upon becoming a SunS...feel free to make faces and throw popcorn to see how many colors you can make her turn."
"The rainbow that is Dianne? And refreshments too? What a wonderful world we live in."
"Then again, it's been some time since I attempted Great Bodily Harm on Deb. Can you say "sucking chest wound"? -- Dianne, Deb, Valerie, Deb, Dianne
"you must realize that the SunS list is the Hotel California of the Internet. People check in, but they can never leave."
"Oooooh! And here I thought we were just The Roach Motel of the 'Net!
Yours sounds so much more classy!"
"We all checked out a long time ago. At least we can still get room service." -- Leslie and Dianne
"Hmmm...that stick sure gets around doesn't it? Did I say that? Out loud?" -- Deb
"There seems to be a stick theme here. Is it of long standing or did I bring it with me?"
"*looks at question*
*considers EXTREMELY bad joke*
*thwaps self and answers with straight face*
Oh, it's *quite* long-standing, what with the Shillelagh of Death, and my quarterstaff downstairs behind the sword rack, and rampaging Horsechicks everywhere, and..."
"Quoth Beth: "Just how long *is* it and how long has it been standing..... and why hasn't somebody done something about it?"
MB: *blink*blink* Opens mouth.... changes mind... says nothing.
Beth: "Shut up Vachon."
MB: :P
This roomie conversation sponsored by the letter K and the number 14." -- Deb(?), Valerie and Mary Beth
"General discussions? does that mean I can't be specific about the top 10 reasons Angel should always wear leather pants and Xander should always wear a speedo?" -- Mary Beth
"Is the boy in *everything*? I think Seth has been cloned... which should make Abby very, very happy. You know, I never did check out what she had in her basement..." --Lizbet
"There was a young man from old Galway
Who learned about angels the "fall" way
He munched young and ol'
Till he got back his soul
And now loves the Slayer for alway."
"Other lists? They have to deal with spelling flames. Us? No, *we* get
drive-by limericks..." -- Lizbet and Dianne
"[Angel] & Gabrielle & Blair. Doing body shots. Knocking back the vino. Doing the limbo and listening to surfer songs. It's summer in Limbo, you know how it is... " -- Kiki
""So hold on, you're telling me that Xander likes Willow, Cordelia *and* Buffy?!"--Karyn (who has clearly never been a 17-year-old boy) (we're pretty sure)" -- Valerie's .sig
"silence
nevermore
for new blood spills into the list
and bad poetry is disemboweled
today hath 3 digests
at 10am (1pm Eastern)" -- Dawn, being *very* scary
"I bow to your anality, dearest..." -- Dianne
"Joss was raised by the Brothers Grimm, this proves it." -- Chris
"Have we come up with an 'original' name for Oz? Do we assume it's a stage/nick name? Do we assume his parents were deeply frightened by Frank L. Baum (or a filecabinet) at a crucial point in their lives?" -- Dianne
"Ya know, it's a sad thing when you're looking at Sean Connery and you're thinking about discussions about sticks. There were *much* better things that my brain could have been doing! Bad brain!" -- Maureen
"It's Bastille Day. Do we get to overthrow the ruling class, i.e., the List Parents? Do we get to go berserk and eat cake? Can I chop off some heads, Elaine? Please please please can I chop off some heads?" -- Betsy
"This is fate..... watch me tempt...." -- MaryBeth
"It's a good day to be berserk. heck, it's always a good day to go berserk. Wanna join? You get cool t-shirts and everything." -- Betsy, losing it
"Fine. Torture me. I don't get any until I get into work. I don't get into work until I get dressed. I don't get dressed until I stop reading the *&%!#@ e-mail (does *&%!#@ count as an obscure foul word in another language? If so how would you pronounce it?) I WANT CAFFIENE!!!!!!!!!!!! < blink > Why are you all looking at me like that...." -- Lizbet
"But the quality of the butt remained unchanged..." --Perri
"Stop that! Bad brain! Just for that you'll get no X-Files smut today! Sometimes we have to punish the brains we love." --Tina
"...so when Angel leaves, he takes the goat with him to be his helper, since a goat for a personal assistant wouldn't be considered weird in LA, just eccentric." -- Beth
"Still giggling over the Cordelia the Goat thing.... which just morphed (along with the Princess Bride/Zorro thing) into something like.... Hhhullo. My name is Angel de Vampire... this is my goat, Cordelia." -- Mary Beth
"Should it bother you more that there is an inflatable sheep sex toy that advertizes the fact that it doesn't do any embarassing bleating? Or that I know where to buy it?" -- Abby
"Whip you, beat you, make you watch B5... yeah, I know... " -- Dianne to Kiki
"It's a little thing we Mercs like to call "self-control." (I can define the term for any 'Packers, if you'd like...). "
"THPTBTPPPPPPPPBBBHBTHTPT! We can control *ourselves* just fine, TYK. It's the people who've taken up residence in our brains that we have trouble with...and between your record and Lizbet's *alone*, I really rather doubt the Mercs have any useful advice to offer on *that* subject. "
"Now, I missed what this was in reference to, but if you all wanna be totally amused, put a bowl of chocolate in front of a bunch of mercs and ask 'em what they're willing to do for it. *Then* ask 'em what that 'self control' thingy was..."
"Yeah, sweetie, but we *wait* for the chocolate. The Pack usually won't wait until the end of the sentence."
"*raises eyebrows* Uh-huh. Y'know, I'd be happy to explain to you the difference between "wait" and "continue talking with our mouths full and hope they're too dumb to notice". For a price, naturally." -- Dianne, Valerie and Jennie
"Oh, yeah, boxer shorts with little cherries on 'em! Who says I don't remember the _important_ things? " -- Maureen
"The topic will be "Why can't Abby get hired in a booming economy?" If that topic doesn't work we'll go for "50 ways to get Angel naked before opening credits."" -- Abby
"Given Tina's propensity for pushing-the-boundaries fic, I must *shudder* at the very thought of Buffy-meets-Three's-Company..."
"Then, one day, the old tenants show up. Buffy attacks Jack Tripper, thinking he's Ted, the other two pounce on Buffy to defend Jack, Xander and Willow jump on the other two to defend Buffy...and that's when Mr. Roper comes in and leers: "Oh, now it's a sixsome!"" -- Dianne and Betsy
"I take pride in the fact that the last time I even got a fleeting glimpse of sanity was in late '92..."
"Wow. This decade. Was it any different from mid-80's sanity? I think I had some back then. It's a bit fuzzy now, tho. And I'm allergic to mold so I don't go near suspiciously fuzzy things anymore. " -- Dianne and Jennie
Let me get this straight. A show, named "Raven" with a dark-haired, seductive immortal-type woman and a cop named Nick filmed and set in Toronto and filled with angst?
*opens mouth*
*blink*blink*
*closes mouth*
There really isn't anything I can say to that." -- Beth
":))) Happiness is a tortured Trill."
"Grr. Hell is a sadistic, gloating Trill."
"Torture is a random pleasure, to be sampled where and when you can get it... < giggle! >" -- Catherine, Perri, and Kiki
"I don't know what that man is on... but it certainly is entertaining. He has goat issues.... who'd have thunk?" -- MB on Joss
"So Willow's frog fear is really Joss's way of working through is goat fear? "Don't feed the kids!" he yelled, as he awoke from his nightmare. His wife, misunderstanding, left him and accused him of child neglect." -- Betsy
"What, I go away for a while and the bad-fic demons possess SunS?!??"
"Where else would the bad-fic demons be during rerun hell???" -- Maureen and Lizbet
"Mary Beth, Beth... I really don't know what to say. If I were a teacher, I'd feel a need to separate you two, because you obviously bring out the worst in each other! Stay in your separate corners and *no more collaborating*!" -- Maureen
"I'm gonna get arrested for impersonating a butterfly." -- Celli
"I'll see that *duh* and raise you a 'damn straight.'" -- Betsy
"Maybe the shaking was from the Mother Ship scooping up all your neighbors." -- Maureen
"Uh, sombody run an demon exorcism on the list... please???"
"C:\run exorcism.exe slayer
.
.
.
ERROR -666MOLOCH
Unable to run exorcism
A)bort, R)etry, S)hrug?
C:\
"Sorry, no dice..." -- Maureen and Dianne
"You are a nastyevilbad changeling child and I am *so* not listening to you." -- Dianne
" Gads... I just had a horrible mental image of Joss having too much time on his hands...
"Thanks a *lot*, Abby! I already can't sleep tonight, and now you want to give me nightmares when I do manage it?" -- Abby and Valerie
"Is this post only relevant to one person? To three people? Can I cut down on the lines of text I'm quoting? Can I answer 15 posts in one message? What is Joss's fascination with goats, anyway?" -- List Mummy Lizbet
"Besides, it'll be fun to rock their little babyGoth world.
"You thing of evil!!! And Elaine! Gods, how sick. Can I join? ;-)))" -- Mo
"Ooooooooooooh! Flutterby-Girl is *soooooooooooooooooooooooo* DEAD!" -- Dianne
"The world will never be ready for my Battlestar Galactica/Hawaii Five-0 crossover. Especially the bits when it crossed over with Star Trek and NBC News's John Chancellor." -- Betsy
"Excuse me while I ponder this a moment.... *thud* We are currently experiencing posting difficulties.... (oh, just imagine if that were true.... *thud*)" -- Mary Beth, on David's rumored wardrobe for 'Angel'
"Oh, this is beyond evil! This is unnatural torture! Bad, Betsy. No biscuit."
"Buffy meets the General Lee? Buffy and Mork? Buffy and Laverne & Shirley? Buffy meets Scarecrow?"
"What he was doing should be illegal. But if they outlaw it, I'm going to be
in jail... a lot." -- Lizbet
"You have been subjected to the terror of roomies reading Slayer mail together. We will now return you to a slightly saner world. Oh, wait, you're SunS. Never mind." -- Beth and Mary Beth
"The man is giving Jeff Conaway a chance to 'break out and go nuts'?!??? Is he insane?!??!??"
"Lizbet's brain is a wholly owned subsidiary of Mutant Enemy Productions." -- Dianne
"See the SunS. See the SunS get Joss-ed. Wig, SunS, wig" --Maureen
"Hit me over the head, please" -- sign taped to the back of Giles' tweed jacket by Maureen
"This is Joss, no use of sunlight can go unremarked without thinking it has a
purpose.... sort of like being in a Highlander ep with a guillotine... " -- Chris
"Angel gets the Lifetime Achievement Award for Brooding Skills..." -- Chris
"Remember, kids! Friends don't let friends be possessed by deranged
blood-sucking sociopaths!" -- Dianne
"It's been a strange afternoon and I'm feeling oddly megalomaniacal." -- Gina
"Mommy!"
"...while it's a fair guess that he spent much of his adult mortal life (such as it was) pub-crawling, I still think he probably knew what year it was *then*. So all I'm left with is...he's an artist, not a mathematician. " -- Valerie on Angel's age
"Do you know how funny she looks when she's bouncing as she's trying to type the word "bounce"? " -- Betsy on Maureen
"See, I'm Death, sweetie. I arrange to get such news at a decent and civilized hour. Otherwise the minons get an earful. < sweet smile >" -- Dianne
"The extremeness of aptitude of that comment by its very NATURE precluded comment, for there was no way that my minor verbage could affect the pulchritude of such an astute and -- dare I say it? -- INSIGHTFUL parallel."
I'm starting to think in terms of "things to pack up and take"... and actually making lists and stuff, so is there anyone I've told I'd bring them something? 'Cuz I don't want to forget..."
"At MediaWest*Con [At which I had a blast, and hello to all you SunSers I met for the first time {Among them, well, hell, you know who you are, and one wonders how you retain any semblance of sanity, if you meet often-- oh, wait. Sanity. Right, never mind. (And I'll never again see the word 'bounce' without being impressed, and also slightly disturbed.).}, and wasn't *this* weekend much fun, and, oh! look, here comes the end of the sentence.] several items of interest caught my eye." -- Elaine
"This weekend I managed to top my previous indignity of being quotelisted with my mouth *shut* by being quotelisted while signing, while uttering inarticulate random noises, and *while asleep*, for crying out loud. I think I should change my name to "Babbles with Fen"" -- Dianne
"Let's not get into Cordy taking over my brain over the weekend. Someone told her the proverb about "I wept because I had no shoes until I saw a man who had no feet," and she's all, "Well, that doesn't mean that you can't cry 'cause you don't have shoes. Anyway, the guy who doesn't have feet doesn't *need* shoes, so what's he complaining about?" I made her go away." -- Lizbet
"Not that Willow's pre-Immie tale is going to be a happy happy, joy joy kind of thing, but I'm hoping for something more than torture, torture, die die, flee." -- Tina
"So Angel's in Hell, eh? What Hell? There are 3,456,209 religions as of 11:14 this morning, which version of Hell did he get thrown into? Didn't the gypsies kind of give him his own Hell on earth? Maybe he's wandering around the North Pole bemoaning his crimes and looking for a boat schedule. Was his hell already decided before he turned back into Angel and therefore he's in Angelus' idea of hell - maybe he's tied to the ground in a bunnyfarm in Nebraska while the bunnies frolic around him and nibble on his nose? Or is he in a dark room somewhere forced to watch a videotape of Spike and Dru's off-key version of "I Got You Babe" over and over again. The possibilities are endless. They really should be more specific about these things." -- Beth
"You know I've got a really dark aspect to my personality. Deal or something like that. *giggle*" -- Tina
"Round Robins never die. They just go into infinate hiatus." -- Lizbet
"It's Monday. Monday morning (more or less). Don't make me hurt you. :ppp"
"Maureen is evil. Evil evil evil. My Evil Stepmama likes all the same guys I do... 'swhy she's evil, damnit. The bad part is, Giles you might have to persuade or ambush into something with whipcream, whereas Michael [Garibaldi] would probably suggest it himself."
"It's not Buffy if you don't go into the first commercial break with a throbbing head and a need to find a brush!" -- MB
"Oops, time to go watch naked college students! Later!" -- Maureen
"Pod, it's all Tina's fault. Kill her, not me, okay?"
"I never knew the human voice could produce those sounds. It was half-way between a dolphin squeal and Xena's undulating cry. < g >"
"Btw, Perri *did* call me last night sounding like a cross between an air raid siren and a heart attack. < g > The only coherent syllables were "Angel! Angel! < gasp, gasp, *choke*, burble, gasp > ANGEL!" Took _at least_ the five minutes she said, just to get her breathing again..." -- Chris, same topic
"So many men, so little time.... Uffffff-dahhhhhhhhhh!!!!!" -- Chris
"Y'know, "Tracy the Grand High Poobah" just doesn't sound right. It's too...umm, what the word I want? Perky? < g > Hey, does this mean we can call her "Buttons"?"
"(Hey, if we removed the Red-Thing-We're-Not-Allowed-To-Mention, Celli just might thud MORE!) Well, that's silly. Of course if you remove the... < thud >...I'm naming all the stars...But I've named them all the same name. And there's terrible confusion...."
"*muttermutter* Sarah M. *muttermutter* Ice Cream *muttermutter* Why won't someone write a story to *that* song, she says *muttermutter* 1am it hits me!! *muttermutter*" -- MB
"< blink > What "corner" of North America is DC in? The _middle_ corner? ;)"
"The cool thing about e-mail is that you can babble incessantly without fear of passing out!" --MB
"Yeah? Restrained by you and whose army, Mo? Unless.... well, actually, if you're going to call in Bab5 Security, I'll try not to resist arrest *too* much.... I'll go quietly, really I will..."
"Anywhere But Here Scenario #15: Steven O'Shea, a Maserati, a car-chase, an escape, a long stretch of lonely highway...."
"...apparently my evil subconscious was picking up things I was not aware of. (Bad subconscious! You never know _what_ it will drag home if you let it start doing that!)" -- Dianne
"It's 'Kiki and Mo's Fantasy Consulting Services'! (a.k.a. "Thuds-R-Us" ;)" -- Dianne
"I tend to go as a homicidal maniac for Halloween." -- Abby
"She can join the ranks of Those Who Channel Dru (Well) And Have Lived (Somewhat Sanely) To Tell About It. " -- Tina
"Moi??? Sorry, sweetie, but I am not my psycho's keeper!" -- Dianne
"Ha! What need have I for such mundane things as sleep! I am all-powerful zine editor, I am woman, hear me... snore. < zzzzzzzzz... >" -- Maureen
"Isn't caffeine a wonderful thing? I'm considering building a shrine to the
Goddess Caffeina. What do you mean, "excessive"? < Mo wanders off in search of some chocolate... >" -- Maureen
""So, who would *you* cast as a mountain, if not James Earl Jones? It's damn near type-casting!" -- Maureen
"Back to the Cheeeek-Fight! En garde! < stops momentarily, entranced by pretty-bright-shiny-sharp sword > Wha...? Oh, right, fight! Hallo, my name is Evil StepMama Mo, you steal my Wizard, prepare to die!"
"My brain will never recover from the indelible images of Angel about to munch Willow on Tuesday and three naked go-go dancing Gabrielles on Wednesday in the same fateful week. For a while there the brain was even superimposing the two... the Gabrielles were go-going merrily away over Angel's shoulder, and poor Xander was having a complete meltdown..." -- Valerie
"You know spoiler space? Maybe you should practice the concept in real life." -- Celli
No, I"m not, either, because [say it with me] she *isn't dead*. What's our motto again, Tina...?"
"While I was gone, several people fell into comas. I'm not going to draw any conclusions from this, though. < g >" --Chris
"So, it's finals week, almost, here at CMSU. And one of my finals is a take-home, for history of the English language. My chosen topic? "Language and Intelligence in Television : Buffy: the Vampire Slayer" The part of me that isn't terribly pleased that I'm getting to write about Giles and Ethan, and use the term 'maxi-wig' in an academic paper, is somewhat disturbed." -- Elaine
"Angel is dead. Spike is dead. Dru is dead. It's sorta a requirement of being a vampire. Jenny isn't dead." --Abby
"I mean, the point became basically moot when Gage... yaknow... exfoliated... but still..." -- Mary Beth
"Don't worry, Giles has been yammering to Kiki and I for the past week or so. Not about The Pack, though. Still, we drugged him and got him naked. No, wait, he got naked first and then we drugged him, right? Kiki, help me out here, I can't remember what order we did things to him... Oh, dear, look at all the < thud >age. " -- Lizbet
"Carpe Speedo?" -- Kiki
"The hell with it. You can all read Typo." -- Perri
"Watching Dr. Who while you have a fever is just... fun. Suddenly the show makes a lot more sense." -- Dawn
"It's one of those big ones that sits in front of your face blinking... *DUH*... *DUH*... *DUH*...." --Lizbet
"You're not allowed to .sig me today... you're not... just _not_!!!" --Lizbet
"How long exactly did it take us to make Angel naked?"
"I'm closing the door on that topic of conversation."
"But it's not like you wouldn't come back from the dead for the sake of seeing Xander wet & nearly-naked again...." -- Kiki
"So, Merc-Mom, what's it worth to ya? < vvveNPg >"
"Boinging *is* the same thing as bouncing. It's *boinking* that's totally different. :P"
"If I wanted reality I would date a vampire." -- Celli
Back to SunS Quotes | Back to Quotes | Back to SunS
"That's me, Hungry Unnatural Torture Woman. < chortle >" --Leslie and Betsy
"Yeeeeeeee! Abby, sweetie! It's bad enough that *your* brain goes such
places... don't take other innocents down with you!" -- Abby and Dianne
"Wheee! Bad mental image of Zack and Garabaldi souping up a shuttle singing Greased Lightening..." -- Jennie and Abby on J. Michael Strazynski, Babylon 5, et al
"Um, Mo? You *are* mommy... < g >"
"Doesn't mean I don't need my own Mommy occasionally! < whimper >" -
Maureen and Dianne
"Lizbet? Bite me." -- Lizbet and Gina
"Yeah. Seth." -- Dianne and Abby
"Nope, sorry, no victim mentality here. If you hurt me, it's *entirely* your choice. < beams in beatific self-actualization, or some such trendy phrase > And morning went away. You're safe now." -- Dianne and Valerie
"Wha..? Uh... *Hey*! Where'd *this* come from?!? < grumble, mutter > (s'last time I try to share my Guys with my daughters... *my* Guys! Mine!! *All* mine...!! < bwahahahahahaaaaaaa! >) Isn't it Friday yet?" -- Chris (in Dianne's .sig) and Maureen
"Hmm... So, I'm taking on someone my own size this time, am I? What shall we call it--the Battle of the Bouncy Brunette Midgets?" -- Betsy and Pod
"Well, it kind of lost something if you couldn't see the explanatory hand gestures that went *with* the sounds. "Squeel (hold out left hand) Squeel (hold out right hand) Squeel louder and more insistently (smash to hands together)." See? Made *much* more sense with them..."
"You put your first sigh in, you put your first squeal out, you turn on the Buffy theme and then you headbang a whole lot..."
"... you do the Buffy-Pokey and you turn yourself about..." -- Lizbet, Mary Beth, Celli and Dianne on the promo for 'Eyes'
"Let me ask you this, Vera: Do you value your current body parts in the order in which they are presently assembled?... "Tracy" if you must; "Buttons" and you die. Any questions? :-p"
"You do indeed realize that this is a blatant challenge, right, Buttons? -- Betsy, Dianne and Tina
"No, no, no! < Lizbet drills holes in roomie's skull to let the demons out > I am SO VERY MUCH NOT rooming with Dru!!!" -- Celli and Lizbet on the red speedos
"Do I deconstruct your generalizations?" -- Dianne and Celli
"Betsy will do her usual: watch as the competing parties get way involved in their fights, then sneak off with Giles, Michael, Oliver, etc., etc. < g > (See, there are advantages to being invisible. *and* imaginary.)" -- Chris and Betsy
"Hmmm... you guys are _good_ at this... I see I have to advance past "Cop in the closet, 'Nough said!" I'd better take notes..." -- Chris and Dianne
"Oh, this should be good. < stands back momentarily and giggles, elbowing rather perplexed Wizard in the ribs, before jumping in just for the fun of it, thus further perplexing said Wizard... >"
"It was fairly easy to perplex that particular Wizard." -- Maureen, Valerie and Lizbet on 'Merlin'
Well, I can't remember the pseudo-Latin gobbledeygook, but I do remember a frenetic chant of "She's not dead, damnit, not, not, not!" -- Elaine and Tina on Jenny Calendar
"As long as it took for his clothes to be ripped off?"
"How much time does it take to tear off a vampire's clothes? Oh, GOD, I'm trilling with TINA?!?!?!?!?!?!!?!?!?!?" -- Mary Beth, Tina, Lizbet in chat
"We keep closing doors. Pity."
"But remember: Everything you close a door, someone, somewhere opens a window."
"...and a Mountie will go through it." -- Lizbet, Perri and Kiki, order unknown
"Um... I won't make you guest star as a cheap whore in my next fic??? < vbg > < sighs as she realizes it's been way too long since she made a practice of that... kinda diluting the chances that Maureena Lunatica, infamous two-denarii street hooker, will jump at this offer... :-p >" -- Maureen and Dianne
"If that won't teach you to spellcheck, nothing will." -- Tina and Betsy